there are many transistion periods in our life. From the time of no schooling, schooling, working and retirement. And as one period moves on to another things change sentiments too n in the end our attitudes too. For the better or for the worst it depends how it is perceived and determined. God for one is constant on bringing us through each of these periods. Next is our family; our parents mainly. Others come and go. From time to time we are ought to examine our lives to redefine, redirect and be aware of the direction we are going too. Well lent is not the only good time, even vacation time or a day off will do.
However in our church the path is paved directed to God thus preparing ourselves ought to be taken on this path. God will guide us.
Sometimes when we are in our comfort zone of our homes we tend to miss the value of the home we are in only to feel it later when we are away from it. Ever since i was young it was cultivated in my family to always be together during the festive period; Christmas, New year, Easter and also our Church Feast Day. When my siblings and I were still schooling it was easy and we often look forward to it. Mum cooks and we all enjoy the feast together and that fills our stomach and soul to go out later and enjoy the rest of the day with other family members and friends. It’s a time too when we just simply want to be home and watch the special programs on television. Despite doing so everyday it is different when it’s the festive time. The holy week is special, a longer period of preparation compared to advent-Christmas. The preparation is not the time spent to clean the house and decorate it but the time we spend as a family to go to church more often (Every Way of the cross session including the Holy week masses in addition to the Sunday masses) and also our active participation in church. My parish is a small one where it is almost always whole families get involved. It was fun, many things to look forward too and in the end to enjoy the fellowship and experience, the good outcomes from our preparations. A job, well done. Fast and abstinence is also easier practiced, the common vegetarian meals in my family every Friday. In a very much orderly comfortable life indeed everyday is a smile. For me it is easier to feel the work of God these times too, the sense of self satisfaction, good and bad memories; the bad ones being good experiences and blessings in disguises are easier seen too. It was those times too that it’s careless. Youths get together and do things in church, we siblings getting involved together, participating in church activities, something ironically hardly seen at home. In those days each one of my family member is partaking in doing something in church together with the rest of the parishioners. A benefit seen in small parishes perhaps. I am proud of my family and this we celebrate together during the festive period. After mass we go home have a toast and have supper together, chat till we get tired and go to sleep. We give a Thanksgiving toast to God for his blessings.
It soon changes, something that it is inevitable. My brother and sister goes to university leaving me alone to hold onto the previous feelings, afraid to change or let them go. Holy week and the other festive was not always a complete family. We would feel the missing piece of a member but of course thanks to modern technology they are a mere call away nevertheless physical presence is indeed more powerful. Despite the incompleteness most if it remained the same and life went on. I missed working with my siblings in church. Now it was just my parents and myself. I was still an altarserver, such deep rooting in serving my parish inspired by the rest of my family members made me continue to serve for 10 over years. During the holy hour after the Maundy Thursday mass, we sit as a family in front of the tabernacle and join the congregation in prayer. It was a simply nice moment to feel the presence of God in our family as well as our extended ‘family’. We go home hearts filled with the warmth of God’s blessings and anticipate for Easter.
Time continues, no turning back, no pause, no halt. When we are happy, comfortable perhaps contended we prefer it to stay like that but nope….life goes on. Now it was my turn to leave home and to the not to far KL metropolitan for further studies. Since my hometown was not to far I was still always back and present for any church and family function. All that I have gathered, learned and experience, I used, to survive my life in KL as a student. Despite wanting to make it home during the Holy week I was determined to experience God in a different mode, place and mood. Of course God is the same everywhere but aren’t we humans with feelings and sentiments. Well it did not fail. The experience of the Holy week in bigger parishers was great. Even greater it was joined with friends. Together with my university CSS members we went church hopping, experiencing God in different communities and environments and languages, taking pictures and sharing them around. Indeed it was great but on the big day I just had to go home for that was where my heart is. With my friends we learnt that God is truly indeed everywhere despite the same one true God the manifestation of the wonders we experienced and saw was different. It was not a hallucination of seeing apparitions but it was the simple smiles we shared among strangers in different churches, meeting people, singing together, making the sign of peace. As friends we got closer too and were empowered, happy to know the Holy week was holy. Reading this some might think we went for joy rides haha but doesn’t God bring that joy. The Holy week inspired us to do stuff. Just like back home Holy week was the time we were doing stuff of preparation as a family and church and also for the self; the growth of thyself with the inspiration of God.
Talk about furthering my studies, I did go further …. deported by my University to Kuala Terengganu to continue my clinical training. It was different yet again. A different time, by time seen by the slow process of moving further away from home. When in KT I was there together with my cohort consisting of only one practicing Catholic. No more family, no more CSS. As usual, I do not know perhaps by nature when in a new place the 1st place that comes to mind to go or look for was the church. Well even before going there I did manage to contact a parishioner from there who helped a lot. So as usual the finding of a church was finding a home and a new home I did find amongst the parishioners and the CSS there. Getting involved in church was alternative too in balancing one life. We all need to have a balance on spirituality to in our lives, besides work/study and family life. There i continued being an altarserver. Once a server I guess always a server, retirement did not want me so I continued to serve in KT although not activelylah. Holy week was different here. Back home parents were the drivers to church and kept us on the spiritual track, In KL was a time when friends and self motivation to keep the spirit going from home continued me to seek God, here in KT I had no transport problem :D. Thank God for keeping me on track by introducing me to the parishioners of KT as well as buddy parish priest. Fun indeed going places too. In Bentong, KL, KT holy week was not a miss and preparation was smooth just like home with a little difference only.
When it comes to the holy week, as Catholics it is compulsory to go for confession. Well I did miss a couple but most of the time I eventually went for it which I feel was just due to a flick of God’s finger. The trust in God and a play from your part will definitely give you what you want provided it is of good. I came across many students who give all sorts of excuses of not being able to go to church and take part in church activities. Well I was a student too and all the excuses that they give I also had it as my problems too but I ASKed and I received. They perhaps asked but since there was some difficulty they let go or perhaps they were simply not interested to join and give excuses because deep inside they are ashamed of their actions. Well here I am not pointing fingers but just want to pass the message not to give excuses, if not interested its ok. No forcing. Its undermining all the others who despite facing difficulties carrying out their spiritual duties. During the holy week lots of happening thus u see lots of these as well. Calling ourselves as Catholics is not enough but we ought to live up to it, its like when u call your self an engineer you should be an engineer and not a lawyer. As u ask God for help be thankful and show it just like how u show your loved ones by showering them with gifts. Mere thinking and expecting God to know (of course he knows) is like doing something and assuming the other person knows what you are doing. If that thing fails the other person can just say I do not know even if he knows just because you have not told that person but instead assume he did. So as students well of course go on and enjoy your lives before you write of yourself into the working world but remember in order to grow up and mature have a balance which includes spirituality. Have a good spiritual quotient, balance it up with your intellectual quotient and your emotional quotient.
After my studies I went further, a not so popular option for many. I went of to work in East Malaysia where a whole new different ball game took place…. Well to a certain extent east Malaysia feels like a totally different Malaysia for a better. It is nice here but of course home is again where the heart is. Over here the benefits of being a school going kid or a uni is no more. You are on own in the working life fending for yourself. So here u have your own car so steer yourself spiritually too. It has been difficult ever since because of the hectic working life, going home tired, sleeping off, forgetting days of obligations and even mass times. In the beginning God seemed further as well even in the comparison with the past. The holy week is not around at this time of writing. I wonder how it would be …. hopefully I would be able to make it for the masses here and it wont clash with my working hours … I prefer going for mass … an escapism from hectic working life. In that week I am optimistic that the preparation would be good God willing despite being tougher.
Last Christmas was my first without my family. I was afraid it would be ruined and already was working on that day but God made it one of the best Christmas experience I ever had. Nothing much but just going to 2 different masses and being with the crowd, with good music and praise it was an awe experience. We are never a lone, God is always there.
So far in this season of lent I even missed Ash Wednesday, fasting is already common due to work. Nevertheless God is essential part of my life even tough time very much lesser in participation of church activities. Commitment to actively participate cannot be given sadly thus making me join the working youth activities here casually. Moreover not been going for the way of the cross too. It is a new experience of trying to merge God with our work since during times of stress things turn differently. This merge I feel is a need for me since I am currently unable to keep the flow going with church activities. A different cross indeed I am carrying and a heavier one too.
Life is like a ECG strip, you can see your heart’s electrical activity having up and down patterns. If this line is flat it means that you would be pronounced dead. So in this season of lent despite all of our varied kind of struggles, lets examine it. See the pattern of the strip if those up and down patterns are pathological of normal. Being aware of a problem is the 1st step in solving it don’t be in denial. Then ask God for help and play apart yourself. God willing things would turn out for the better. Enjoy the coming of the holy week, experience God in the masses, it would be a refreshing.
God’s speed!
Happy Easter
Tuesday, March 20, 2012
Wednesday, December 1, 2010
I am Communal Being
Humans are communal being by nature whether they like it or not. Even those who are individualistic still depend on others, perhaps not directly by their definition.
What are the communities i belong too? :
UCSI school of medicine
CSS
Bentong
Kuala Terengganu
Indians
Malaysians
Pahang
Facebook
Youth
University students
Catholicism
Health Care - doctors
Single :P
Males
- therefore we are communal being and we should be proud of it and strive to contribute to it.
What are the communities i belong too? :
UCSI school of medicine
CSS
Bentong
Kuala Terengganu
Indians
Malaysians
Pahang
Youth
University students
Catholicism
Health Care - doctors
Single :P
Males
- therefore we are communal being and we should be proud of it and strive to contribute to it.
Saturday, November 27, 2010
Psychiatry and Daily Movies ;)
dissociative fugue - movie into the wild maybe
dissociative personality disorder @multiple personlity disorder - anniyan, me,myself and irene, chandramuki
dissociative amnesia - butterfly effect
chapgras syndrome - others are not who they really are - find the cause of the changing period btw when the the other person
changes from real to the unreal for the patient. use the trigger and manipulate it to challenge the patient when he is
stabilised.
movie called obssesed is an example delusion disorder erotomanic type
some delusional disorder - shutter island
hypothyroidism with mental disorder - orphan
ahedonia - the neagaitive symptom of shizophrenia - feeling of absence of plesurable activity or one has experienced before =
=== i have this haha
disordered content of tought ~ over-valued ideas == isolated preoccupying belief, neither delusional nor obsessional in anture which comes to dominate a person's life
for many years and may affect his actions. the pre-occupying belief maybe undestandabale when the patients background is known.
dissociative personality disorder @multiple personlity disorder - anniyan, me,myself and irene, chandramuki
dissociative amnesia - butterfly effect
chapgras syndrome - others are not who they really are - find the cause of the changing period btw when the the other person
changes from real to the unreal for the patient. use the trigger and manipulate it to challenge the patient when he is
stabilised.
movie called obssesed is an example delusion disorder erotomanic type
some delusional disorder - shutter island
hypothyroidism with mental disorder - orphan
ahedonia - the neagaitive symptom of shizophrenia - feeling of absence of plesurable activity or one has experienced before =
=== i have this haha
disordered content of tought ~ over-valued ideas == isolated preoccupying belief, neither delusional nor obsessional in anture which comes to dominate a person's life
for many years and may affect his actions. the pre-occupying belief maybe undestandabale when the patients background is known.
THINK!!! ARG!!!
One of the more interesting insights from evolutionary psychology and neuroscience is how the human species is predisposed to pattern-seeking, often to a fault.
On the plus side, through our ability to differentiate similar from dissimilar, we’re able to develop complex systems like language and hierarchical societies.
On the minus side, we also have a taste for narrative that’s quite happy to take short cuts and oversimplifications to arrive at temporary ‘satisfactions’. Many supernatural, pseudo-scientific and conspiracy theory-laden explanations tend to fall into this category.
An interesting corollary to all of this pattern-seeking behaviour is a need to assign an agent as the provocateur of something: if we didn’t have an obvious cause or causer, we would literally need to invent one just to fill in the cognitive gap.
On the plus side, through our ability to differentiate similar from dissimilar, we’re able to develop complex systems like language and hierarchical societies.
On the minus side, we also have a taste for narrative that’s quite happy to take short cuts and oversimplifications to arrive at temporary ‘satisfactions’. Many supernatural, pseudo-scientific and conspiracy theory-laden explanations tend to fall into this category.
An interesting corollary to all of this pattern-seeking behaviour is a need to assign an agent as the provocateur of something: if we didn’t have an obvious cause or causer, we would literally need to invent one just to fill in the cognitive gap.
Friday, November 26, 2010
Politics for Dummies
Malaysian politics is such a joke, full of dramas, sandiwaras, stupidity, insults and middle fingers to the people.
The government is taking the people for a ride feeding on the apathy of the majority and their contentedness, dependents and also those who remain silent and unpatriotic also with the presence of dumb opposition which i think the gov is keeping them for show to the international community. It cant do what Singapore does to its opposition cause the country and big and so called democratic.
The opposition is filled with jokers who do not know politics, going in for their own pockets, seedlings from weeds from BN, opportunist, trouble makers and cheap publicist. Its pathetic
Of cos there are good 'politicians' within the opposition but i feel they lack the political credibility and balls. Yes these are those who really want to work for the people but i rather suggest to them to become social workers or NGOs or columnist in newspapers or blogs. Some are just barking dogs in parliament bringing something to nowhere. But parliament itself i dunno seems to be a waste to time and the parliamentarians are just wasting or selling time for cheap so that the actually committee who actually works on bills do the work and everything.
There are credible ones but i feel they are just getting tired and old and loosing the uhmph but still holding them in which i think they will do so until their die.
Politics is dont dirty but its the battle of intellectual rationalization, political geniosity in tactics and maneuvering. Its a hard battle for idiots so they end up in cheating especially with money and sadly there are even more idiots who take them.
Politicians should have a selfless vision and mission for the people and to make that work they have to come into power and to do so fighting through the many other likewise people is what politics is all about. So how you battle your way up to win the peoples heart and get u to govern and make work your vision and mission.
Its like fighting among the many cooks to get the best soup for the customer. But too many cooks to make a soup will spoil the soup but this is different when there are there many 'no cook's' cooking a soup. The real cooks form different restaurants and people of their respective liking will go to the ones they like. See who gets the most customers and they would be the best cook. But if the no cooks open up restaurants fewer people will ever go to any one of them so in the end those with the most out of the least will be the 'best'. the 2nd analogy describes Malaysian politics. Do the people have a better choice? so we are actually choosing the best out of the worst but currently many are gambling on the other no cooks hopefully they would end up to become better.
Malaysian politics not only needs robotic intellectualism but like it or not there is still a lot of sentiments and culture involved so manupulating them to work is essential by not playing dirty once again but using cultural intellectualism. Now we need this intellectualism because we are in a intellectual maturing country (process)unlike those days where there is no need of it.
Sometimes to understand local milieu, we need to do some comparison and lets take a look at Singapore, how it has come up and look at its milieu. They lack the need of cultural intellectualism and lee kuan yew being a brilliant politician with a selfless vision and mission for his people just had to use political intellectualism. he was a robotic politician which made robotic people in the end but luk at Singapore now? i think if Malaysia becomes a pariah state Singapore will still prosper. Even when Indonesia was of no worth once Singapore probably just felt pity. Pro or con the absence of culturism in that country but look at the progress. There culturalism was sacrificed but there is no need over here. It is not a rule that you need to sacrifice one. Why not just merge it through intellectual manipulation.
Unless the opposition in this country pulls and keep their pants up with no shrinking balls and brains win the hearts of people even the good for nothing ones then there is a point to their existence.
BN will forever play its old game for there are many playing with them.
To win them one either needs to play their game which in the long run is going to be a corrupt cancer unless the game is just a ploy or within BN screw them up. And i have a feeling now is a good time to screw them up from the inside out. And one more option, a good opposition which have a balance to play the cards of the intelectualist and the culturalist.
Intellectualism - using brain basically, having wits, know how, tactics, facts and figures, calculated plans, evidence based vision and mission, results, well organized, efficient, disciplined, ethical in work.
Culturalism - those who love their creed (race, religion etc) and wants to maintain them and prevent it from vanishing, uphold roots, defend them
politics (oxford) : the art of science of governing dealing with the form, organization and administration of state and with its regulations of its relations with other states; the ideas, principles or/and commitments of an individual or organisation, in political life, the organisational process of principle according to which decisions are made affecting authority and status.
The government is taking the people for a ride feeding on the apathy of the majority and their contentedness, dependents and also those who remain silent and unpatriotic also with the presence of dumb opposition which i think the gov is keeping them for show to the international community. It cant do what Singapore does to its opposition cause the country and big and so called democratic.
The opposition is filled with jokers who do not know politics, going in for their own pockets, seedlings from weeds from BN, opportunist, trouble makers and cheap publicist. Its pathetic
Of cos there are good 'politicians' within the opposition but i feel they lack the political credibility and balls. Yes these are those who really want to work for the people but i rather suggest to them to become social workers or NGOs or columnist in newspapers or blogs. Some are just barking dogs in parliament bringing something to nowhere. But parliament itself i dunno seems to be a waste to time and the parliamentarians are just wasting or selling time for cheap so that the actually committee who actually works on bills do the work and everything.
There are credible ones but i feel they are just getting tired and old and loosing the uhmph but still holding them in which i think they will do so until their die.
Politics is dont dirty but its the battle of intellectual rationalization, political geniosity in tactics and maneuvering. Its a hard battle for idiots so they end up in cheating especially with money and sadly there are even more idiots who take them.
Politicians should have a selfless vision and mission for the people and to make that work they have to come into power and to do so fighting through the many other likewise people is what politics is all about. So how you battle your way up to win the peoples heart and get u to govern and make work your vision and mission.
Its like fighting among the many cooks to get the best soup for the customer. But too many cooks to make a soup will spoil the soup but this is different when there are there many 'no cook's' cooking a soup. The real cooks form different restaurants and people of their respective liking will go to the ones they like. See who gets the most customers and they would be the best cook. But if the no cooks open up restaurants fewer people will ever go to any one of them so in the end those with the most out of the least will be the 'best'. the 2nd analogy describes Malaysian politics. Do the people have a better choice? so we are actually choosing the best out of the worst but currently many are gambling on the other no cooks hopefully they would end up to become better.
Malaysian politics not only needs robotic intellectualism but like it or not there is still a lot of sentiments and culture involved so manupulating them to work is essential by not playing dirty once again but using cultural intellectualism. Now we need this intellectualism because we are in a intellectual maturing country (process)unlike those days where there is no need of it.
Sometimes to understand local milieu, we need to do some comparison and lets take a look at Singapore, how it has come up and look at its milieu. They lack the need of cultural intellectualism and lee kuan yew being a brilliant politician with a selfless vision and mission for his people just had to use political intellectualism. he was a robotic politician which made robotic people in the end but luk at Singapore now? i think if Malaysia becomes a pariah state Singapore will still prosper. Even when Indonesia was of no worth once Singapore probably just felt pity. Pro or con the absence of culturism in that country but look at the progress. There culturalism was sacrificed but there is no need over here. It is not a rule that you need to sacrifice one. Why not just merge it through intellectual manipulation.
Unless the opposition in this country pulls and keep their pants up with no shrinking balls and brains win the hearts of people even the good for nothing ones then there is a point to their existence.
BN will forever play its old game for there are many playing with them.
To win them one either needs to play their game which in the long run is going to be a corrupt cancer unless the game is just a ploy or within BN screw them up. And i have a feeling now is a good time to screw them up from the inside out. And one more option, a good opposition which have a balance to play the cards of the intelectualist and the culturalist.
Intellectualism - using brain basically, having wits, know how, tactics, facts and figures, calculated plans, evidence based vision and mission, results, well organized, efficient, disciplined, ethical in work.
Culturalism - those who love their creed (race, religion etc) and wants to maintain them and prevent it from vanishing, uphold roots, defend them
politics (oxford) : the art of science of governing dealing with the form, organization and administration of state and with its regulations of its relations with other states; the ideas, principles or/and commitments of an individual or organisation, in political life, the organisational process of principle according to which decisions are made affecting authority and status.
Sunday, November 21, 2010
Book review
The Spirit of Truth & The Spirit of Error
by Rev (Dr) Timothy Tow
This is a book about the charismatic movement within the Christianity regardless of denomination. The author cautions fellow Christians on the authenticity of their practices and doctrines (page 9 1st prgh. He is of protestant background and thus not surprisingly hits a little on the Roman Catholic Church.
On the RC - he equates our believe on Mary and the Saints as also a Spirit of Error (page 3 1st prgh) in respect to attaining Salvation. As the theology and philosophy of protestants is Salvation is ONLY through GOD (bible). Well it is quiet understanding that the author to my perception does not understand on the concept of Salvation by RC which is Salvation is attained by works and faith of which this concept is from the very bible the RC put together only to be later 'mis'/'re'-interpreted by the protestants some 1500 yrs later. To make things clear believing in Mary and the Saints is not equilavent to 'complicated system of works by Mary. Saints, martyrs, etc etc etc' as written in the same page. Mary and the gang are tools for us humans to come closer to God. For God is also Just. It may not be mentioned in the bible but there are many stories which tells us so for example the wedding at Cana. (Dont read the bible literally - it was not written as such unlike the Quran).
Now back to the Charasmatic movement. Well in the beginning the RC church supported it but later it was banned. Like here in Malaysia it was done so too somewhere in the mid 1990s. Why ... reasons are as such in this book.
Well the spirit of error is a plague and is not only within the charismatic movement but also within ourselves and our church be it protestant or RC. However for the RC this error does not stay long but will be rectified and the chances for it to happen is also slim for what governs it is not 1 person the pope but the whole church. Unlike the protestant churches the chances for error is soo big because every church (independent ones especially) is governed most of the time buy just one person or a elite group of elders within a community. In the RC the hierarchy protects us and of cos since it is the church from Jesus it is to this very regard we give confidence to it as a leader in our faith bringing us to God and salvation.
If the spirit of error as ruled over something it will never last long. It will fall. This movement has been banned in the RC. So it stops. Some protestant churches who have opened with this as the main item has closed too. If the RC is an error it would not have survived 2000 over yrs. As in the bible says after Jesus formed it - the gates of hell will not prevail this church.
Now back in the RC certain elements also mentioned in the book which was said to be practiced earlier on in Christianity is stilled practiced but in a liturgical manner as to protect it from flaw and error. So we dont see anymore of the action as described by the author haha.
the end
by Rev (Dr) Timothy Tow
This is a book about the charismatic movement within the Christianity regardless of denomination. The author cautions fellow Christians on the authenticity of their practices and doctrines (page 9 1st prgh. He is of protestant background and thus not surprisingly hits a little on the Roman Catholic Church.
On the RC - he equates our believe on Mary and the Saints as also a Spirit of Error (page 3 1st prgh) in respect to attaining Salvation. As the theology and philosophy of protestants is Salvation is ONLY through GOD (bible). Well it is quiet understanding that the author to my perception does not understand on the concept of Salvation by RC which is Salvation is attained by works and faith of which this concept is from the very bible the RC put together only to be later 'mis'/'re'-interpreted by the protestants some 1500 yrs later. To make things clear believing in Mary and the Saints is not equilavent to 'complicated system of works by Mary. Saints, martyrs, etc etc etc' as written in the same page. Mary and the gang are tools for us humans to come closer to God. For God is also Just. It may not be mentioned in the bible but there are many stories which tells us so for example the wedding at Cana. (Dont read the bible literally - it was not written as such unlike the Quran).
Now back to the Charasmatic movement. Well in the beginning the RC church supported it but later it was banned. Like here in Malaysia it was done so too somewhere in the mid 1990s. Why ... reasons are as such in this book.
Well the spirit of error is a plague and is not only within the charismatic movement but also within ourselves and our church be it protestant or RC. However for the RC this error does not stay long but will be rectified and the chances for it to happen is also slim for what governs it is not 1 person the pope but the whole church. Unlike the protestant churches the chances for error is soo big because every church (independent ones especially) is governed most of the time buy just one person or a elite group of elders within a community. In the RC the hierarchy protects us and of cos since it is the church from Jesus it is to this very regard we give confidence to it as a leader in our faith bringing us to God and salvation.
If the spirit of error as ruled over something it will never last long. It will fall. This movement has been banned in the RC. So it stops. Some protestant churches who have opened with this as the main item has closed too. If the RC is an error it would not have survived 2000 over yrs. As in the bible says after Jesus formed it - the gates of hell will not prevail this church.
Now back in the RC certain elements also mentioned in the book which was said to be practiced earlier on in Christianity is stilled practiced but in a liturgical manner as to protect it from flaw and error. So we dont see anymore of the action as described by the author haha.
the end
Friday, October 15, 2010
Oh Mama!!!!
2 videos : http://www.ucatholic.com/apologetics/18/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA.
A protestant friend argued these and these are my arguments back.
ust to let u know some thoughts i have about the video that u posted
the video about Mary...was a bit skeptical i feel...
Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well
& the 'woman' in revelations chapter 12 is not referring to Mary as well although in verse 2 it says it laboured & delivers the child (Jesus)
if u read verse one, it says the woman with the sun & moon & the 12th stars...
the sun & moon appears in jacob dream in genesis as the promise land & the 12th stars is the 12 tribes of Israel...
because Jesus Himself is a descendant of David whom is a descendant of one of the 12 tribes
so the Woman mentioned ther is "Israel"
my response ::: Revelations
- women can be viewed in 3 ways :
yes – Israel
Mother Mary – in literal terms
The Catholic church (the only church of that time)
1st we need to look at the book of revelation as a whole
Why/when/how was it written
– when the book was written it was during the time of persecution under the Romans. So to give HOPE to the people and at the same time to continue to DECIMATE the word of God to them without being detected by the Romans it was written in Greek in very descriptive language. Hope that good will prevail over evil.
Many argue today that this book is about the REAL end of the world but its actually not. The prophecy did not go as far as that but just as far as the ‘future’ reign of emperor Nero. This book dates between the time of Emperor Domitions and Nero.
Now we look at it in the perspective that the woman is Israel.
- if it were Israel then the writer is talking about the past and as u have said those symbols are as per mentioned. Then lets c how Israel fits in further….
Book of rev written for present times (time of when it was written) and Christ has already risen therefore why should he go back to the past?
Verse 10 :
//And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now has come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ : because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.//
The underline verse = the kingdom of God and the power of his Christ.
The word Kingdom : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm (short oni can read one :P)
The word HIS – an institution/body
If it were Israel – at that time the kingdom of God has not come (the old testament awaits the coming of the kingdom of God)
Reading further verse 11 : And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death.
The word they : Israel overcame by the blood of the lamb? Lamb as we know is Jesus the sacrificial lamb @ the greatest sacrifice. They refers to the Kingdom of God (rules) and to the HIS (the body/institution)
The other verses it mentions about desert/wilderness. Since rev was written in greek the word desert carried different meaning : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04749a.htm
Now we look in the perspective of Mary – literal and also the church
It is interesting to note that how good the writer has interwoven literal meaning and figurative meaning together.
: A woman... The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.
As mentioned as the above statement the number 12 are the 12 apostles. Crown of 12 stars. The church regards Mary as the Queen of the church as well Queen of heavens, therefore bearing a crown. At that time of writing the apostles were still alive (if not all) and they together with Mary received the Holy spirit on Pentecost.
Furthermore it has repeated mention about pain and delivering and ‘her son’ as like an emphasis perhaps not to confuse with her being Israel.
The further verses can be explained as above under ‘perspective of Israel’ .
Further readings on Mary : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
there are many subheadings so u can read which one interest you lah.
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another point he argues :
the verse whr Jesus said "behold, here is your mother" to be honest, i'm not very clear on this....u can see it in 2 ways act...
one is that Jesus is telling the disciples that Mary is their mother, & another way is that Jesus is teaching the disciples to honor & respect their parents...
my response :::: At the cross Jesus tells John behold thy mother. U said as this to mean asking his disciples to honor father and mother. At that time there was no father figure there involved. And so Jesus entrust John to make her a room.
Also at that time when Jesus said that most (all I think except John) of the apostles ran away so I guess its not a good time for lessons, furthermore the lesson of honoring your father and mother is not something new but already well known since the time of the 10 commandment and does not serve a purpose at the time of crucifixation to remind it. Such a purpose is out of place.
As Mary was so strong of a person, a person who can withstand seeing her Son being crucified she would too become the strength to the apostles.
Coming to honoring father and mother. Jesus honors his Mother, obeys her despite he not wanting too (wedding at Cana – my time has not yet come……. Do as he says), therefore the church follows suit to also honor her and with that confidence (cana) we believe when we ask Mary to pray for us, God will hear too.
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another point ::::: And Mary herself is not w/o sin....
She is just a human being...like us....it's just that God had chosen her to bear Jesus....
She's the virgin Mary...but not the sinless Mary
my response ::: Mary is just a women. No she not just a women. Blessed are you amongst women …… (the annunciation … Angel Gabriel).
: luke 1, 28-29 : And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
In verse 29 she thought to herself what MANNER of salutation ….
In verse 48 : Because he has regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. And this is what the Church is doing.
The word blessed is not simply used on people.
: check the dictionary. Could not copy and paste those meanings :P
I don’t think God would just pick any women to bear His Son …. For a Son of God to be born of a woman would not the women be from a special pick??? Like in the video Mary was likened to the 2nd Eve who was also born without sin. So she too would be only rightfully be protected from God to be without sin. And she remained so.
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another point ::: Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well
my response :::Referring to the lady in Samaria as women – the women was not named, so how else to call her or to even write what name should the author have used? (giving respect to how females were called in that time, language and other circumstances). Jesus knew who was Mary why still call her women then?
so well thats all ... happy reading.
A protestant friend argued these and these are my arguments back.
ust to let u know some thoughts i have about the video that u posted
the video about Mary...was a bit skeptical i feel...
Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well
& the 'woman' in revelations chapter 12 is not referring to Mary as well although in verse 2 it says it laboured & delivers the child (Jesus)
if u read verse one, it says the woman with the sun & moon & the 12th stars...
the sun & moon appears in jacob dream in genesis as the promise land & the 12th stars is the 12 tribes of Israel...
because Jesus Himself is a descendant of David whom is a descendant of one of the 12 tribes
so the Woman mentioned ther is "Israel"
my response ::: Revelations
- women can be viewed in 3 ways :
yes – Israel
Mother Mary – in literal terms
The Catholic church (the only church of that time)
1st we need to look at the book of revelation as a whole
Why/when/how was it written
– when the book was written it was during the time of persecution under the Romans. So to give HOPE to the people and at the same time to continue to DECIMATE the word of God to them without being detected by the Romans it was written in Greek in very descriptive language. Hope that good will prevail over evil.
Many argue today that this book is about the REAL end of the world but its actually not. The prophecy did not go as far as that but just as far as the ‘future’ reign of emperor Nero. This book dates between the time of Emperor Domitions and Nero.
Now we look at it in the perspective that the woman is Israel.
- if it were Israel then the writer is talking about the past and as u have said those symbols are as per mentioned. Then lets c how Israel fits in further….
Book of rev written for present times (time of when it was written) and Christ has already risen therefore why should he go back to the past?
Verse 10 :
//And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now has come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ : because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.//
The underline verse = the kingdom of God and the power of his Christ.
The word Kingdom : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm (short oni can read one :P)
The word HIS – an institution/body
If it were Israel – at that time the kingdom of God has not come (the old testament awaits the coming of the kingdom of God)
Reading further verse 11 : And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death.
The word they : Israel overcame by the blood of the lamb? Lamb as we know is Jesus the sacrificial lamb @ the greatest sacrifice. They refers to the Kingdom of God (rules) and to the HIS (the body/institution)
The other verses it mentions about desert/wilderness. Since rev was written in greek the word desert carried different meaning : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04749a.htm
Now we look in the perspective of Mary – literal and also the church
It is interesting to note that how good the writer has interwoven literal meaning and figurative meaning together.
: A woman... The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.
As mentioned as the above statement the number 12 are the 12 apostles. Crown of 12 stars. The church regards Mary as the Queen of the church as well Queen of heavens, therefore bearing a crown. At that time of writing the apostles were still alive (if not all) and they together with Mary received the Holy spirit on Pentecost.
Furthermore it has repeated mention about pain and delivering and ‘her son’ as like an emphasis perhaps not to confuse with her being Israel.
The further verses can be explained as above under ‘perspective of Israel’ .
Further readings on Mary : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
there are many subheadings so u can read which one interest you lah.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another point he argues :
the verse whr Jesus said "behold, here is your mother" to be honest, i'm not very clear on this....u can see it in 2 ways act...
one is that Jesus is telling the disciples that Mary is their mother, & another way is that Jesus is teaching the disciples to honor & respect their parents...
my response :::: At the cross Jesus tells John behold thy mother. U said as this to mean asking his disciples to honor father and mother. At that time there was no father figure there involved. And so Jesus entrust John to make her a room.
Also at that time when Jesus said that most (all I think except John) of the apostles ran away so I guess its not a good time for lessons, furthermore the lesson of honoring your father and mother is not something new but already well known since the time of the 10 commandment and does not serve a purpose at the time of crucifixation to remind it. Such a purpose is out of place.
As Mary was so strong of a person, a person who can withstand seeing her Son being crucified she would too become the strength to the apostles.
Coming to honoring father and mother. Jesus honors his Mother, obeys her despite he not wanting too (wedding at Cana – my time has not yet come……. Do as he says), therefore the church follows suit to also honor her and with that confidence (cana) we believe when we ask Mary to pray for us, God will hear too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another point ::::: And Mary herself is not w/o sin....
She is just a human being...like us....it's just that God had chosen her to bear Jesus....
She's the virgin Mary...but not the sinless Mary
my response ::: Mary is just a women. No she not just a women. Blessed are you amongst women …… (the annunciation … Angel Gabriel).
: luke 1, 28-29 : And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
In verse 29 she thought to herself what MANNER of salutation ….
In verse 48 : Because he has regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. And this is what the Church is doing.
The word blessed is not simply used on people.
: check the dictionary. Could not copy and paste those meanings :P
I don’t think God would just pick any women to bear His Son …. For a Son of God to be born of a woman would not the women be from a special pick??? Like in the video Mary was likened to the 2nd Eve who was also born without sin. So she too would be only rightfully be protected from God to be without sin. And she remained so.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another point ::: Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well
my response :::Referring to the lady in Samaria as women – the women was not named, so how else to call her or to even write what name should the author have used? (giving respect to how females were called in that time, language and other circumstances). Jesus knew who was Mary why still call her women then?
so well thats all ... happy reading.
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