Oh Mama!!!!

2 videos : http://www.ucatholic.com/apologetics/18/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA.

A protestant friend argued these and these are my arguments back.

ust to let u know some thoughts i have about the video that u posted
the video about Mary...was a bit skeptical i feel...
Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well
& the 'woman' in revelations chapter 12 is not referring to Mary as well although in verse 2 it says it laboured & delivers the child (Jesus)
if u read verse one, it says the woman with the sun & moon & the 12th stars...
the sun & moon appears in jacob dream in genesis as the promise land & the 12th stars is the 12 tribes of Israel...
because Jesus Himself is a descendant of David whom is a descendant of one of the 12 tribes
so the Woman mentioned ther is "Israel"

my response ::: Revelations
- women can be viewed in 3 ways :
yes – Israel
Mother Mary – in literal terms
The Catholic church (the only church of that time)

1st we need to look at the book of revelation as a whole
Why/when/how was it written
– when the book was written it was during the time of persecution under the Romans. So to give HOPE to the people and at the same time to continue to DECIMATE the word of God to them without being detected by the Romans it was written in Greek in very descriptive language. Hope that good will prevail over evil.
Many argue today that this book is about the REAL end of the world but its actually not. The prophecy did not go as far as that but just as far as the ‘future’ reign of emperor Nero. This book dates between the time of Emperor Domitions and Nero.

Now we look at it in the perspective that the woman is Israel.
- if it were Israel then the writer is talking about the past and as u have said those symbols are as per mentioned. Then lets c how Israel fits in further….
Book of rev written for present times (time of when it was written) and Christ has already risen therefore why should he go back to the past?
Verse 10 :
//And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now has come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ : because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.//
The underline verse = the kingdom of God and the power of his Christ.
The word Kingdom : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm (short oni can read one :P)
The word HIS – an institution/body
If it were Israel – at that time the kingdom of God has not come (the old testament awaits the coming of the kingdom of God)
Reading further verse 11 : And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of the testimony: and they loved not their lives unto death.
The word they : Israel overcame by the blood of the lamb? Lamb as we know is Jesus the sacrificial lamb @ the greatest sacrifice. They refers to the Kingdom of God (rules) and to the HIS (the body/institution)
The other verses it mentions about desert/wilderness. Since rev was written in greek the word desert carried different meaning : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04749a.htm

Now we look in the perspective of Mary – literal and also the church
It is interesting to note that how good the writer has interwoven literal meaning and figurative meaning together.
: A woman... The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.

As mentioned as the above statement the number 12 are the 12 apostles. Crown of 12 stars. The church regards Mary as the Queen of the church as well Queen of heavens, therefore bearing a crown. At that time of writing the apostles were still alive (if not all) and they together with Mary received the Holy spirit on Pentecost.
Furthermore it has repeated mention about pain and delivering and ‘her son’ as like an emphasis perhaps not to confuse with her being Israel.
The further verses can be explained as above under ‘perspective of Israel’ .

Further readings on Mary : http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
there are many subheadings so u can read which one interest you lah.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

another point he argues :
the verse whr Jesus said "behold, here is your mother" to be honest, i'm not very clear on this....u can see it in 2 ways act...
one is that Jesus is telling the disciples that Mary is their mother, & another way is that Jesus is teaching the disciples to honor & respect their parents...

my response :::: At the cross Jesus tells John behold thy mother. U said as this to mean asking his disciples to honor father and mother. At that time there was no father figure there involved. And so Jesus entrust John to make her a room.
Also at that time when Jesus said that most (all I think except John) of the apostles ran away so I guess its not a good time for lessons, furthermore the lesson of honoring your father and mother is not something new but already well known since the time of the 10 commandment and does not serve a purpose at the time of crucifixation to remind it. Such a purpose is out of place.
As Mary was so strong of a person, a person who can withstand seeing her Son being crucified she would too become the strength to the apostles.
Coming to honoring father and mother. Jesus honors his Mother, obeys her despite he not wanting too (wedding at Cana – my time has not yet come……. Do as he says), therefore the church follows suit to also honor her and with that confidence (cana) we believe when we ask Mary to pray for us, God will hear too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another point ::::: And Mary herself is not w/o sin....
She is just a human being...like us....it's just that God had chosen her to bear Jesus....
She's the virgin Mary...but not the sinless Mary

my response ::: Mary is just a women. No she not just a women. Blessed are you amongst women …… (the annunciation … Angel Gabriel).
: luke 1, 28-29 : And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you: blessed are you among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
In verse 29 she thought to herself what MANNER of salutation ….
In verse 48 : Because he has regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. And this is what the Church is doing.
The word blessed is not simply used on people.
: check the dictionary. Could not copy and paste those meanings :P
I don’t think God would just pick any women to bear His Son …. For a Son of God to be born of a woman would not the women be from a special pick??? Like in the video Mary was likened to the 2nd Eve who was also born without sin. So she too would be only rightfully be protected from God to be without sin. And she remained so.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another point ::: Mary is not the only one Jesus called as Woman....in John chapter 4, Jesus called the samaritan woman "Woman" as well

my response :::Referring to the lady in Samaria as women – the women was not named, so how else to call her or to even write what name should the author have used? (giving respect to how females were called in that time, language and other circumstances). Jesus knew who was Mary why still call her women then?


so well thats all ... happy reading.