I promoted Matin Jallel's session to a protestants friend cos i am trying to be a bit optimistic about the result and it ended up with him asking me why do we confess our sins to the priest and why not direct to God. And also God as died for all our sins and freed us from it so why have it?
Well i m no smart ass to be able to answer intelligently so i answered accocding to what i know.
Well i said it is in the bible that this sacrement is instituted from of which he denied obviously then i said we read the same bible then how come u have not seen it?
Anyway going to a priest and confessing, the priest is the medium of which God has given power to execute his function here after Jesus left and Jesus forgave sins and he has told his Apostles to do so as well. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm
Not being so good with the bible tried to put some psycology in it where when u go to someone to confess ur sins esp to a man of God u come clean, naked, all the gravest sins u r saying direclty to a human being not robot or air who as just as u feelings and a mind and a perception which can deduce. Therefore going 'naked' in front of a human u are ought to be off brave, humbled, humuliated of the sins you have done thus it has shown u have forgiven yourself and thus asking pardon from God of which a priest is carrying out that duty here on earth. The priest on behalf of God in word for a human can hear says u r forgiven. What feeling would u have?
Compare it to sitting queitly at a corner and talking to God saying i am sorry. Like or not we being humans, sinners thus not perfect is like going to a tree and telling ur sins to it and pleasing urself telling urself the tree has forgiven me. well of cos i am not saying God is a treelah. What feeling would you experienced here? compare?
well again i was bombarded with the same question and we ended up in circles but good thing is he told me to provided evidence and i hapily did with the website link given above. after reading a few line in which he himself said he did he quickly said these references are from other books ( u check yourself ya wat are those books in that link). I just told him continue to read.
Anyway i have noticed one thing here. Perception and understanding. He was trying to understand this sacrement from the perpective on a protestant. It cant work for protestant dont believe in it in the first place and only has teaching against it on which lies his basis on arguments. He is like talking great about road A to destination C without even using road B to C and talks against road B. is it fair for an argument?
Now comes the intention of this argument. there is no listening. dahlah i dunno how to express in beutiful words like how that link descibes confession what not to even try to make into simpler terms to explain to him...i muntah darah kena tmebak till dunno how to explain d(my bad). So since i cant explain fully i sort of lost lor and he happy thinking that well the church is wrong and stupid to potong jalan btw God and ME.
C ar.... in dialogues the intention is to understand one another and come to exceptance of why the other believes so. In the end its either u except or not and also u want to follow it or not. simple.
therfore if he would want to understand why we have this confession thing he has to see it from the catholic perspetive and understand it. He has to use the B road himself and then make the choice btw A n B.
Id this does not occur then till world ends the arguments would continue to go in circles and we become fools.
In addition dialogues are not to determine who is right and and who is wrong. When the choice is made is just based upon how one can except the others understanding and follow it. If according to the persons upbringing, mentality, his own maturity find the catholic church does not fit into his perception of God then of cos that understanding would be rejected but not wrong.
The breakdwn which is causes problem is that people dunnow how to understand, dunno how to make a choice and how a choice is made (factors involved). They want a right or wrong answers and of cos they want to always be the right one (how can they not be right, right?)and it ends up with fighting..... so ends the dialogues, ecumenism etc etc. (me n my fren din fight)
Also not to forget when u come to a dialogue with a question u cant have a preset answer sheeth in the head. mind should be open. Too many cross questioning takes both parties no where but making fools out of each other. And too many of it just makes u more of a person who does not want to listen to you but wants to make u loose.
A third party guy (taouist)understood what i was explaining but he could not comment cos he was smart he said i do not know the basis of the argument as in how ot argue whatever.
An example. Doctor patient. Patient ask doctor what happen and what have you done and why the treatment in such doctor explains as he dutied too. then patient questions how come cos this is not what i read in the papers (in this case the doctor is correct in his treatment and management), so the doctor again explains a lil bit deeper in science why. but the patient is adamant due to the difference in approach (the paper and doctor) and continues to question the doctor. Now the doctor can explain but the dept has become to deep and wide as so for the patient to understand fully the patient has to go to medical school to understand. Now the patient can question and should question but have some understandment. the understanding that there are many approaches to manage a patient and according to patient the best is suited and what best suits the patient the doctor knows and of cos the paper cant tell everything if not that would become a medical book.
Such a patient gives an impression that he is just not satisfied with what the doctor did since he has come with a fixed mind based on a paper what should be done and he believes so much in the paper despite all the poor doctors efforts he is not satisfied. Then he goes out to give wrong impression about this doctor and to other patients about treatment and management so much so some patients come in saying if they operate my shoulder i can go paralysed! Some even said after u go surgery you wont live long. And on the other side this is also why doctors get angry being humans tells the patient of 'saya doctor ka u doctor?'.
Even when want to complain think 1st. Dont just let your mouth loose. Fit into the other persons shoes and ask why and is it reasonable or not to go and complain and are my questions i put out in arguments and dialogues fair or not, logic or reasonable or not.
Thursday, August 12, 2010
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